Learning From The Past

~ Forum to settle disputes and clarify rules. Private Tribunal subforums are available on request.

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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Shredman » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:07 am

4/3/2008 wrote:
Let's dispense with the blatant lies posted by the game's tiny, sycophantic core userbase that desperately trolls this site for new users on a monthly basis and yet fails every time. It should tell you something when your game fails to generate interest despite repeated spamming that has been ongoing for years.

This game is only useful if your computer is from the last century. It is not worth a 10, 9, 8, or any rating that might remotely qualify it as a valid use of your spare time. The game itself, despite all claims to the contrary, is still an unsophisticated and extremely redundant text-based kingdom-building schmoz done better by numerous other companies. If you want to waste time at work, there are thousands of better alternatives. If you want a free online MMO, there are also many superior alternatives. The fact that most of the active "community" members refuse to play the game on a regular basis is an important point, which brings us to...

The "community" itself. To my knowledge, the community has always been tiny, extremely insular, and exceedingly hostile and unwelcoming. Despite making repeated pushes for new members via spamming MPOGD, the administration and many of the established members are openly antagonistic to new and unfamiliar members of the community, especially anyone whose viewpoints even remotely disagree with the popular right-wing reactionary screed. This completely negates their intentions of publicizing the community and primarily serves to keep this group very single-minded, bitter, and unwelcoming to anyone not a part of the "angry nerd redneck" inner circle. Roleplaying, which was once a key draw, has been reduced to a sad parody as all the best creative minds have since left for greener pastures. Primary topics of discussion are the comical woes of middle-aged dingbat housewives, far right-wing ideology, and mindless bullshit.

If you love playing redundant, horribly outdated games with no graphics with a crowd of gun nuts and anime-loving social rejects, you'll love Canon. Otherwise, don't bother, and don't fall for the lies of people who will tell you how great it is until you get there, and then skewer you while laughing.



who wrote that shit ??????

feel like pulling a Jay
ALL YOU MFers ARE GONNA PAY lol

damn thats harsh

you guys have to consider i was away for what almost 4 yrs .... i guess there were some things said , that should stay in the past, i know about that well...
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Gerien » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:18 am

I do believe the ex-demon nailed it, my friends.

Well written sir, and thank you.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Kaz » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 am

It is harsh Shred, and is also the product of someone bitter from whatever shitstorm went down around about that time.

But as harsh as it may be, it has enough truth to it that we need to be sure that we learn from it.

I already get the impression that the new guilds game will be just the same as it's always been, I left because I had had enough. Hopefuly these early tribunals, will make people think, because I wont go down this road for a second time.

This is the time where the seeds need to be sowed, these opening threads and the atmosphere they create, will be what new people see. They need to be new seeds, rather than picked up from the past and replanted in the same old way.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Teanos » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:27 am

I don't want people to glance over what Kaz just said and not really stop to think about it.
I already get the impression that the new guilds game will be just the same as it's always been, I left because I had had enough. Hopefuly these early tribunals, will make people think, because I can't go down this road for a second time.
I am in 100% agreement with this statement.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Dauthi » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:53 am

Kaz, and Teanos,

You guys know I full back anything you do, and will be willing to help in anyway I can, so I applogize if I seem like a negative nancy. With that said...
I already get the impression that the new guilds game will be just the same as it's always been, I left because I had had enough. Hopefuly these early tribunals, will make people think, because I can't go down this road for a second time.
What do you expect? You are taking a warn down, burnt out, hate filled, cliqish community, giving them a bath, and new cloths and telling them that you are going to soon allow them to play with the same toy they've played with over the last 12 years, only after you've finished cleaning the grime and dirt off it.

You expect them to all of a sudden start playing with that toy differnetly? Do you expect them to play with each other differnetly?

All thats going to happen is someone is going to step on someone elses toes, and they are going to get righly annoyed, and then that nice clean swimming pool you brought us will be nothing more then a cesspool of years of hatred brought back out. From the few, threads I've read, I've seen some of the same, degrading hate filled post from the same people, toward the same people. the first couple of days I read every thread in this place. Now... now I only read yours two's thread.

If you want this to be anything other then "monarchy 3.0, a new cesspool of hate filled bigots." then I"d suggest taking the old game and finding a new community or taking the old community and creating a new... NEW game

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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Shredman » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:55 am

well i am just an ass to you guys lol...

you know who you are :twisted:


i treat the noobs better than most...if they want to learn i teach them a few shortcuts on builds and such, if they wanna be D~I~E , even vet players... it plainly states on our banner, on the boards you post with respect and honor in the guilds forums ...no exceptions ... we also have links to our RP threads and encourage members every day to try and post in them.... i know its hard for some to RP, but its actualy kinda easy, your game charecter can be anything you want him/her to be, thats the whole point of RP....


and hey we need sinners and saints.... if a persons charecter is not a nice guy , well we need those to, now it is true , its hard to gain respect here for a noob, Respect i agree has to be earned, but consideration should be gave by all our core Guys who have been here esp to noobs with no clue how to play or post...

maybe some sort of points system should be used for rights to post in certain forums , it looks like thats where you guys are heading with this forum...anyway , you know i am tring to bring guys in, and doing it without spamming mpog s lol....i hope i can bring back some that i just recruited , they were liking the game, then the news came.... anyway.... yea i will try and keep Shred in check on the boards and not be as ............ brash , is brash a good word ???? lol

esp to our New Players, you guys know i will try and help um out.....
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Vox » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:15 am

It's not the game, it's not the history, it's the people that count.

To my knowledge, the community has always been tiny, extremely insular, and exceedingly hostile and unwelcoming

The extremely insular, nad exceedingly hostile and unwelcoming part i partly agree with. BH in the beginning was bad but there were also a LOT of people posting back then. You had to deal with BS but there was usually enough going on on the boards you didn't have to always be a part of it like it got to be on TB after the number of members dropped. But i remember when i started NPA was where i mostly posted (first time i did i got a warning) but NPA back then was fun. Then i stepped into Guilds and met Cruella and got my ass handed to me on a platter, but it was fun cause it was a RP warthread and i thought i could whip VV all by myself. But i learned.


For the most part WE (yes some weren't but good or bad anyone and everyone who has been or will be a part of these boards is responsible) were a bunch of assholes most of the time. I spent way too much time after i'd been playing a few years just going after people just to rile them up. Shred, Lancelot, Pistol, Zann, Grey, FireMaiden, Sypto (my brother-in-law who doesn't play now because of me), Venus and Maverick toward the end among others. No good reason other than I thought it was fun or a little pissed or both, and others agreed with me, even encouraged it. I was far from the worst but i didn't help. Even trying to change the way i posted and being nicer didn't help at the end, the damage was done and we were all playing two kingdoms to make "Guilds" look like a real game again.



The history of the game WE created and it's part of this no matter what.


Maverick was someone at one time or another a LOT of people just couldn't deal with and not because he tried to make trouble but because he WAS good, i always thought he was a good and he was but his cocky attitude rubbed some the wrong way, me i never adapted a cocky attitude til he and SoulDemon came along. But Mav was the first person who actually taught me how to play the game well, and i've been so pissed at him over the game i couldn't see straight. But when it comes right down to it i'll take Maverick from back then over anyone who's ever played this game. He was almost as good as i am now ;)

I don't talk to Mav but i got no problem with him or anyone else anymore for that matter. I gave up on Evernight a while back and after a couple years pretty much not playing and being fed up with all the BS and none of it really mattered anymore to me.

I'm rambling again but i guess what i'm trying to say is we should have rivals and all but we don't need to get back into vendettas and a lot of other crap we use to. We can't have people just being negative all the time. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Our past ain't going anywhere but there are parts of it that can be left behind.

I never dealt much with Comments, Guilds was always my home so most of what i know about how the boards were mainly stems from the Guilds game. When it starts back up there won't be many playing at first and if we start down the road just picking up where we left off this won't be no different.


Well it will be cause my alt can moderate, i can see me standing before a Tribunal now cause i won't leave without fighting to make some people listen.

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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Teanos » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:38 am

Dauthi,

You have a good point, but that is kind of what Kaz and I have been talking about since we started linking people here. We are not trying to sell you a brand new 5 bedroom house on an acre and a half of land next to a private beach and the Golden Gate Bridge, when all we have is a burnt-out trailer in the middle of the worst ghetto you can imagine. (ok, gotta find shorter anaologys I guess.)

We are telling you the game code is roughly the same. We changed the name, might change a few other things, but over all its the same. What we are asking is that people stop and look at the parts of the boards and game they hated in the past. The stuff that drove them insane - and simply think about that before they go down the same path.

Monarchy is not meant to be a new game. We are actually working on that, but that is neither here nor there. Monarchy is simply a way to preserve the past twelve years of history. To give people who don't spam and post all day a reason to stick around until we get those other games out.

New games, recodes, etc have been promised in the past. I'm not trying to relive those moments or set any expectations. Like Kaz said, its not just a matter of you all finding a reason to stick around -we have to as well. If we don't believe in what we are doing or presenting, or we feel its not worth the time or effort then what is the point?

That is what I want people to stop and think about. What is the point?

Shred,

This isn't about past guilds, or how great of a leader you were back in the day. I'm not trying to pick on you, but honestly the more posts of yours I read, the more I see you dwelling in the past and are not really understanding what we are saying. All I can say, and I say this with no mailace, but you probably do need to read what we are saying and think about it some. Complaining about turns, and game speed, recruiting players is really trival if all you are going to do is make this about the past.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Shredman » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:41 am

i think thats what we are here for, in this forum , to be heard....


and ya know, for the first time in alonggggggggg time , i feel we are being heard.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Teanos » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:48 am

Oh, something else I wanted to address was that whole "right wing mentality" thing.

I'll preface this with the following:

I'm a 28 year old male registered Republican. I am not religious person per se, but I do believe in God.

However, I fully agree that the politics and political views on Tempers Ball were very hostile, unfriendly, and inspired no debate what so ever, just a bunch of people ganging up and bullying on others who had a differing opinion. In the past, everyone was allowed to speak their mind under that whole "Free Speach" thing. I think that fostered alot of bad feelings, and it is evident in those reviews.

That is why I want to draft some board rules governing how those threads should be handled. But thats another thread in Comments already, I probably should bump that back up as the forums are getting more active.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Vox » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:57 am

if a persons charecter is not a nice guy , well we need those to


Voxlin de Nightstalker isn't a nice guy, he's a evil shadow-drow elf. Unlike BH and TB that won't excuse him if he decides to be the same ole ass he use to.

I'll ban myself for that, playing a character is one thing but a line is being drawn now on what people won't get away with here. It's not the game, the turns or any of that that drove people away, it was the attitudes.

The problem with BH and TB is that most so-called characters weren't just 'bad' guys but downright assholes. 'Character' became a convienant excuse.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Shredman » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:11 am

Teanos wrote: Shred,

This isn't about past guilds, or how great of a leader you were back in the day. I'm not trying to pick on you, but honestly the more posts of yours I read, the more I see you dwelling in the past and are not really understanding what we are saying. All I can say, and I say this with no mailace, but you probably do need to read what we are saying and think about it some. Complaining about turns, and game speed, recruiting players is really trival if all you are going to do is make this about the past.


well the past is something i would like to forget aswell. and mistakes i have made.... funny you should mention the past today, its Urydies Birthday , she would have been 32 today... the ppl who truly know me here , know who i am talking about , and know i have payed for my mistakes that hurt some here , who i really cared about, not as online gamers or game charecters , but as real ppl....

trust me man, i more than any would like to not remember some of the things from the past.... but some things are gonna be brought up, you cant create bonds with ppl , talk to them every day for years and years and not mention the past, or say what we have done here in this community good or bad for 12 years never happened ....

as for leaders and all that horse shit, i was always only as good as the guys who had enough faith in me to hit the numbers i gave um....

its alot easier to not talk about the past , when we have a game up and a new start.... where it goes from there i guess we will see...


and as far as being singled out...well i have always felt like i have been treated dif by admin than most elder players, and was before i made the mistakes here, maybe it was because of my loyalty to Neu , maybe i talked to much shit to an admin alt, hell i dont know.... now i know i am still talking about the past, but this thread is about the past....

i am all for fresh starts.... but some things of the past wont go away , unless the players leave.... and even then they will linger , it will be alot easier to stop refering to the past once the game is up, and esp the apps and we get more players....
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Vox » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:27 am

Maybe the game should be called Trinity and rename Gods and change the game around, and oh yeah ban ALL BH and TB board alts.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Dauthi » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:09 am

Teanos,

What your asking is almost impossible, if not completely impossible. We, and I use that term loosely since I feel I"ve detached myself enough from the game politics to no succum to its alura, will play nice, and probably even put on wonderful fakes smiles and do what ever it is at first that is needed to get you and Kaz both attached to the idea of running the community again and make you feel that everything is going to be differnet this time around, until some point someone does something that someone else didn't like(whether they ment to or not) and the old blood lust and hatred will resurface. No one will think nothing of it at first because, well its them them two guys, they always were like this. This is them having fun. But really its just the first straw. Then the next one will happen shortly after and so on and so forth, until someone brings up something that happen to them in a past age, or something someone said years ago just to make themself feel rightous and self important.

Its going to happen, and in 6 months, a year, 2 years or what ever, you and Kaz will be sitting here, still with monarchy, with even less players, with the same arguements, with no drive to do anything orignal wondering were it all went wrong... again.

Just to prove it will happen. - Scroll down to one of mavericks post were he, in an attempt to goad me, and make me look like a fool to better his own cause, pulled up something that was -years- old, even after he and I "made up" per say. (yes I know this aint much better, and Mav I do applogize that I'm having to use you as an example but it is the only thing I could think of in short notice to prove my point.) He brought up the promise I made of bringing in x-number of players to get him for his antics in Foret, during a time I was running Goblins, all because he -felt- I wrong him, and felt I was after him in some way. He couldn't see that I had changed since then, he still saw me as that younger adolesent fool I was, and if Mav, one of our more well spoken, and more educated members of community couldn't put aside the past what makes you think members who are here purely on emotional attachment are going to?

Look, I'm not saying close the site and tell us all to go F ourselfs. I'm saying quite waisting your time and energys on trying to preserve something that doesn't needs to be preserved, and focus it on something constructive and new. It is honestly the ONLY way your going to get us over the past stupidity -AND- attrach new members to the community to help us write up a new history.

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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Vox » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:28 am

edit:

Sorry my bad gotta step away for a bit.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Dauthi » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:48 am

Vox,

I"m going to have to go with the assumtion that your trying to say that I'm telling them to close the time and to tell us to F ourselfs because I think they are waisting their time and energies on a dead horse. (I did read your post before you edited it.)

but its not. I'd like them to create something new, a new game, Kaz has a wonderful game Idea that if he were to finish I think would be awesome to play, but every time I talk to him about that game he tells me he would love to do it but he is burnt out from working on monarchys code, or that he's to busy working on monarchy's code(and I'm not talking just recently but over the last year or so... he used canon instead of monarchy but iits all the same.)
[19:32] Kaz - TEN: i dont think you understand quite how bad state the code is in
[19:32] Kaz - TEN: it's why recodes never happen..... you either have to rewrite the whole game, or clean up the whole game
[19:33] Kaz - TEN: i've cleaned up much of it, but have never been able to do it propperly because it takes so long. By the time its complete, half the new additions and bug fixes need to be remembered
This is from a conversation we had today. The game code is so mis mangled that even with years of trying to clean it up... he's not done. How long do you think it will take him to actually -finish- cleaning it up to the point he will feel like he can move on to another game idea/concept? Or will he get burnt out -again- from trying to clean it up and make changes to make us happy, and deal with our constant bitching and whinning about one aspect not working right or how this change isn't good or what ever.

Instead he could just scrape the idea of ever fixing the code, and work on his fresh idea, an idea of his own and then our bitching about how it doesn't feel right can be turned into suggesting differnet stratigies on how to beat his game, or how to beat each others at his game, his baby. Something that he can inspire himself to actualy want to work on.
Last edited by Dauthi on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Vox » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:57 am

Don't assume Dauthi, my post had nothing to do with my PM.


I'm outta this for now.
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Gerien » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:02 am

Dauthi wrote:You expect them to all of a sudden start playing with that toy differnetly? Do you expect them to play with each other differnetly?
Which is why some of us have been tryin to establish a different vibe on THESE boards so that at least some things are different...
And I never even got my own damn posting title!

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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Shredman » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:44 am

Dauthi wrote:Vox,

I"m going to have to go with the assumtion that your trying to say that I'm telling them to close the time and to tell us to F ourselfs because I think they are waisting their time and energies on a dead horse. (I did read your post before you edited it.)

but its not. I'd like them to create something new, a new game, Kaz has a wonderful game Idea that if he were to finish I think would be awesome to play, but every time I talk to him about that game he tells me he would love to do it but he is burnt out from working on monarchys code, or that he's to busy working on monarchy's code(and I'm not talking just recently but over the last year or so... he used canon instead of monarchy but iits all the same.)
[19:32] Kaz - TEN: i dont think you understand quite how bad state the code is in
[19:32] Kaz - TEN: it's why recodes never happen..... you either have to rewrite the whole game, or clean up the whole game
[19:33] Kaz - TEN: i've cleaned up much of it, but have never been able to do it propperly because it takes so long. By the time its complete, half the new additions and bug fixes need to be remembered
This is from a conversation we had today. The game code is so mis mangled that even with years of trying to clean it up... he's not done. How long do you think it will take him to actually -finish- cleaning it up to the point he will feel like he can move on to another game idea/concept? Or will he get burnt out -again- from trying to clean it up and make changes to make us happy, and deal with our constant bitching and whinning about one aspect not working right or how this change isn't good or what ever.

Instead he could just scrape the idea of ever fixing the code, and work on his fresh idea, an idea of his own and then our bitching about how it doesn't feel right can be turned into suggesting differnet stratigies on how to beat his game, or how to beat each others at his game, his baby. Something that he can inspire himself to actualy want to work on.

that takes time D, and i think we all have had some good ideas about improving game play as is....

i hate to speak of the past again,
but i have been back what 6 months or so ?

there were new features i had not seen before then, the ub wasnt an option when i last played before i returned, other changes to in o and d troops , but was made easy to access for new guys... the only big problem i saw with the codes, were

1. Forts need to be tougher for the land it takes to support them esp vs CS, would also bring back the lost group of pure wizards .

2. Sorcery , Elven Vampire and Sidhe need to hardley ever backlash, and droben and gob sorcery need to backlash 80% and do very little damage when they dont, Human would be need to backlash like 40% but do decent damage , make the sorcery a factor again.

and The Droben summon should be moved to a top spell like lightning or atleast the fog slot, that way when they get so big they will need alot of enclaves to obtain their crazy sick summon....which again would make scummers very happy aswell, taking away a 70k acre droben summon for days ...


i realize this isnt a suggestion thread, but other than that the codes looked solid as far as % , forts just need to be stronger and slight sorcery adjustments...


just IMO
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Re: Breaking Away From The Past

Post by Nagash » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:27 pm

Dauthi, the reason that I am trying to get people to stop dwelling on the past is because this is supposed to be a fresh start and a new opportunity. Read the posts by Teanos and Kaz a few times and you'll see that it is not impossible. It requires of those who sign up here to come here with a different attitude. Those who don't want to do that should question their motives of signing up here in the first place. As of moment #1 is has been made crystal clear that this is not Evernight.
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