Health Care Bill: What Will Happen?

[Sturm-II]

So if a compassion tax credit were given to those that are being levied the extra cost would be a good thing in helping to offset the overall cost?

[Grunt]

That is another problem with the bill
no effort seems to have been made to determine what works and what doesnt
there was no examination of systems around the world as to what works and what doesnt
it was simply an attempt to get universal single payer even tho has been shown to bankrupt systems and take the motivation away from doctors

[Grunt]

Sturm you can not pay for more people and cut costs
Compassion is freely given taxes are collected by force
If the left really was so compassionate they would help on their own
their solution is always let the government tax everyone to get me what I want

I believe it was the Iron Lady who said
Socialism only works till you run out of other peoples money
I gave more in charity than Obama prior to 2005 on a fraction of his salary
he is only generous with other peoples money
His brother lives in a shack my brother lives in my home
His aunt was living in a project on welfare
Compassion is not very high on his to do list

[Sturm-II]

Lets not muddy the waters with political "ism's", considering it's all part and parcel when dealing in democracy.

Sturm you can not pay for more people and cut costs

Then temporarily cut the uneccessary funding to such programs as linked by MoP.
US $1.8T is one hell'uva golden influx to begin a HC safety net.

[Grunt]

Why should we pay for other peoples bad decisions
Does it encourage people to make the right decisions
Does it encourage people to be more responsible
or does it make people feel good about helping other people using other peoples money

[Sturm-II]

Why should we pay for other peoples bad decisions
Does it encourage people to make the right decisions
Does it encourage people to be more responsible
or does it make people feel good about helping other people using other peoples money

Grunt is it right children/adults should be denied the access to medical services because of a pre-existing condition?
Would you consider any of your families bad decisions (if applicable) to be reason enough for their disallowment of those medical services if needed, or would you be standing there with your wallet open screaming blue bloody murder to help them?

I agree with you, in that more personal responsibility and proper decision making is needed, but given the example above not all your family think or act in the same manner as you or others that make those good/right decisions.

An given the cost of living one's income is easily eaten up in day to day expenses, that rut is very hard to climb out of, add in the cost of getting sick or surgery, you suddenly go from just making it to having to contemplate bankrupcy in addition to the toll of any current medical issues which do not go away with a bankruptcy filing.

[Nagash]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_President

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_President

There is a couple
Sorry man but I do not see the GOP calling for violence
targeting legislation and congressional seats is not an incitement to violence
Just as the recent calls that they were spat on and called racist names I also feel are BS
I have watched almost an hour of film now of the congressman who claimed such things and have seen none of it
Democrats are in perpetual victimhood
A leftist group at one of the first teaparties had an Obama sign with him as Hitler
it is the same group that started the Bush as Hitler signs
the media thought the Bush signs were funny and topical
The Obama signs on the otherhand were disgusting and a right wing ploy
I honestly feel the media slanders and smears the right on a daily basis in its selective reporting

"Let me get this straight. The new health care plan will be written by a committee whose Chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress which hasn't read it, signed by a President who smokes, funded by a Treasury Secretary who did not pay his taxes, overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese, and financed..... by a country that is nearly broke. What could possibly go wrong?" --Senator Scott Brown.

Will go for a more lengthy response tomorrow, am a bit pressed for time atm.
But this movie is British, so what does it have to do with the Dems?

[Gerien]

Newborn with Birth Defect Denied Coverage
Health Care Provider Tells Texas Family Baby's Artery Problem is a Pre-Existing Condition; Won't Pay for Surgery
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/ ... 5430.shtml

You're right. We really didn't need to support this bill at all. I'm sure everything would have worked itself out just fine.

I hereby leave this conversation and, for a little while at least, this entire site.

[Sturm-II]

Newborn with Birth Defect Denied Coverage
Health Care Provider Tells Texas Family Baby's Artery Problem is a Pre-Existing Condition; Won't Pay for Surgery
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/ ... 5430.shtml

You're right. We really didn't need to support this bill at all. I'm sure everything would have worked itself out just fine.

I hereby leave this conversation and, for a little while at least, this entire site.

Yeah that story aired a little while ago, poor lil gaffer gets denied coverage because he was born with a defect, stinks to high heaven of discrimination.

but i'm rather surprised your giving up?

[owly]

i'm sorry to hear that Gerien i wish you a speedy return........

[Sturm-II]

Hey Gerien
"Don't retreat, Reload"...;p
lol

[Grunt]

I hope you are not leaving because of the conversation

[owly]

Hey Gerien
"Don't retreat, Reload"...;p
lol

well said

[Grunt]

There are many programs for children with pre existing programs already in existence
there are horror stories in every system and I do not condone ignoring sick children
you notice it is always a sick kid that gets tossed to the front for the sympathy factor
this bill mainly effects the 20 somethings in forcing them to buy coverage
the elderly in a half billion dollar cut to medicare and changes in their drug coverage
Doctors who now get paid less for seeing a patient yet have more paper work
and businesses that have higher expenses
And the greater than 50% of Americans who have insurance are happy with it yet will now see their premiums rise 10-15%

[bigSparky]

I'm not at all surprised he is bailing. His widdle feewings must have somehow got hurt, yet again. Those of you who think this is such a great bill, listen, if all it did was things like prevent the whole preexisting condition issue, I'd support it 100%. I bet Grunt would too, and maybe even Reylan. That would be true reform, and good and moral reform as well. Pretty sure I said that early in the thread. I would still like a good and reasonable answer as to what Cap and Trade, Pell Grants, and other DISCRIMINATORY grants and fed funding are doing in a bill that is SUPPOSED to be about health care reform.If they had spent more time making sure the bill was worded right instead of on what else they could sneak in to it, and maybe listened to other voices before rushing to get SOMETHING, ANYTHING, passed, then perhaps the insurance companies would not have this technicality to hold on to. I could not imagine being the guy who for a living finds these loopholes and exploits them. If there is indeed a hell, I hope folks like that have their spots reserved. This is another example of why this bill is total shit. Not the idea of health care reform, but THIS PARTICULAR bill.

[Sturm-II]

you notice it is always a sick kid that gets tossed to the front for the sympathy factor

Sympathy factor?
It was a genuine comment to a specific instance, you should know better then to assume any inference of political usage, at least on my part.

I would still like a good and reasonable answer as to what Cap and Trade, Pell Grants, and other DISCRIMINATORY grants and fed funding are doing in a bill that is SUPPOSED to be about health care reform.

Can't argue there, does tend to give the reader the impression that perhaps this is what was discussed behind closed doors.

But I did state to Reylan a few pages ago that you all could amend the bill, why wasn't these issues raised then?

[tubs]

Those of you who think this is such a great bill, listen, if all it did was things like prevent the whole preexisting condition issue, I'd support it 100%

And it wouldn't be a practical change by itself. You tell insurance companies they must cover pre-existing conditions then people will only buy insurance when they get sick so only sick people will be paying into the system and the costs of insurance will approach the cost of the treatment. To remove the preexisting problem, you must have healthy people supporting the system, there's no way out of it. That's what all the rest of the bill is about, and cost controls.

Anyway, I'm going to bow out of this thread now too. We are just arguing philosophical issues at this point and I'm more interested in a more down to earth conversation about the pros/cons of this bill and not about whether Reaganomics works or not.

[Grunt]

Sympathy factor?
It was a genuine comment to a specific instance, you should know better then to assume any inference of political usage, at least on my part.

Yes why did they not bring out the drug addicted mother of 4 at age 20
why did they not bring out the alcoholic street bum
They always find the most sympathetic person they can and parade them around as a poster child
They feel it them gives them absolute moral authority
No one could possible disagree with us if we hide behind this cute kid and talk of his problems

Again Sparky is spot on
everyone wants reform of the system but real reform not this hodge podge of liberal wish lists
I am sure college loans for engineers are instrumental to health reform

[Sturm-II]

Yes why did they not bring out the drug addicted mother of 4 at age 20
why did they not bring out the alcoholic street bum
They always find the most sympathetic person they can and parade them around as a poster child
They feel it them gives them absolute moral authority
No one could possible disagree with us if we hide behind this cute kid and talk of his problems

Tell me how many Americans actually pay close attention to politics, legislation nuances vs how many Americans are bandwagoneer's, because someone with power/authority/popularity say's vote/don't vote for this or that ?

Again Sparky is spot on
everyone wants reform of the system but real reform not this hodge podge of liberal wish lists
I am sure college loans for engineers are instrumental to health reform

As I stated to Reylan on page 1, amend the changes.

[Grunt]

Nearly two-thirds of Americans say the health care overhaul signed into law last week costs too much and expands the government's role in health care too far, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, underscoring an uphill selling job ahead for President Obama and congressional Democrats.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... poll_N.htm