Restore Discussion

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Please provide an opinion rating the restore feature. You can change your vote at any time.

9. The best idea in the history of this game
0
No votes
8. One of the best ideas in the history of this game
4
29%
7. A very good idea
0
No votes
6. A pretty good idea
5
36%
5. It's just another feature
2
14%
4. A pretty bad idea
3
21%
3. A very bad idea
0
No votes
2. One of the worst ideas in the history of this game
0
No votes
1. The worst idea in the history of this game
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 14

Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Aeyliea » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:42 pm

Will you be changing settings of restore for non guilded games?
Now nimble fingers, that dance on numbers / Will eat your children and steal your thunder;
While heavy torsos that heave and hurl / will crunch like nuts in the mouth of squirrels.

Yeah, its Seska. Start running now, bitch.
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Kaz » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:25 am

Aeyliea wrote:Will you be changing settings of restore for non guilded games?


Those general ideas I was thinking for restore in general. However 'durations' and other numeric modifiers can be changed on a per game basis. I'm initially thinking about guilds, but am more than happy to have different settings in different games.

As I mentioned before, if I'm given suggestions for different modifiers for other games, I'll change them. I don't really play bloodbath (for example) so it's hard to predict what settings are best without some indication.
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Kaz » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:45 am

These are the suggested settings for guilds next age, feel free to PM me suggestions for other game formats, or to start a thread in the appropriate forum to discuss them.

Duration of Peace Required in hours: 24
Number of Turns Required: 72
Rolling Age of Restore Window in hours: 72
Duration of RPP for manual restore in hours: 48
Duration of RPP when Killed in hours: 72
Number of Emergency Restores per age: 1
Rolling Age of Emergency Restore Window in hours: 144
Restore Land Percentage: 80%
Restore Building, Elan, Population Percentage: 75%
BRT during RPP: 50%
TRT during RPP: 50%
Inspire Devotion during RPP: 50%
Time after RPP before Kingdom declare possible in hours: 24
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Gili » Sat May 11, 2013 6:12 am

Perhaps its worth adding a maximum size that a restored realm can return at? Perhaps based on the average size out there, or maybe just a flat 20/25k acres as the maximum.

If by some magic POO destroyed FEL tonight, they'd restore back to probably be top realms in the game. It could be argued that this is just this age, but last age the vile blues were in a similar position.

Oh its probably worth mentioning that POO has no plans to hit FEL, tonight or other wise. You'll find me rummaging around in two of your realms. 1 - was me looking at someone who failed to scout me unseen, the other was just curiosity. And damn your realms look grim. Does anyone know of a 4th war option? War, Sorc and Scum look not much use :)
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Ashin » Mon May 13, 2013 5:34 pm

Kaz wrote:These are the suggested settings for guilds next age, feel free to PM me suggestions for other game formats, or to start a thread in the appropriate forum to discuss them.

...
Number of Emergency Restores per age: 1
...


What is an emergency restore?
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Kaz » Mon May 13, 2013 5:56 pm

Emergency Restore was something I'd suggested in an earlier post.

Basically it's a restore window that lasts twice as long as usual. So, for example if the restore window is looking back 3 days, the emergency restore will let you look back 6 days...Once per age (assuming it's on)

It's basically an idea for a limited use option, to help out when people are busy (or new) and miss the restore window.
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Nagash » Wed May 15, 2013 3:55 am

Gili wrote:Does anyone know of a 4th war option? War, Sorc and Scum look not much use :)


Invite us over for drinks, then catch us off our guard?
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Calen » Wed May 15, 2013 9:12 am

One suggestion for this feature if I may... when a kingdom goes into restore, all declarations of war against it are cancelled or at least set so that they can be. None of this "we only recently went to war" stuff
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Kaz » Wed May 15, 2013 9:53 am

Calen wrote:One suggestion for this feature if I may... when a kingdom goes into restore, all declarations of war against it are cancelled or at least set so that they can be. None of this "we only recently went to war" stuff


See... that's why we have threads like these, an obvious thing that ought to be done that I didn't think of at all. I'm not sure I'll be able to add that 'this' age, but if it's possible I will. It'll be in place with the other modifications next age though.
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Aeyliea » Fri May 17, 2013 4:53 pm

Somewhere someone mentioned putting a cap on how much land a kingdom may restore to.

I like this idea a lot. Basically, its like the BRT thing you corrected Kaz - a very big realm makes money easier, and therefore can get a bigger army. It thyen becomes so much easier to whore land, and if you whore enough land and someone kills you, you are still bigger. Then you come out of RPP and whore more land, and are bigger still.

Taking on top ranked guilds and being forced to kill people three or four times to be able to knock a large realm out is kinda bad - essentially, if you get big, you stay big. And once someone gets big, unless a MASSIVE amount of effort is used, you win lol
Now nimble fingers, that dance on numbers / Will eat your children and steal your thunder;
While heavy torsos that heave and hurl / will crunch like nuts in the mouth of squirrels.

Yeah, its Seska. Start running now, bitch.
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Kaz » Fri May 17, 2013 5:32 pm

With the idea of putting a cap on a restore, the downside is that kingdoms who have to some extent worked harder or built more efficiently, lose out more than other kingdoms. That's not really fair.

How about a cap on the amount of 'open' land a restore can have? Let's say for example 20k open acres maximum, the rest is returned to the church (tithe has to come from somewhere after all).

If you've spent the turns to build your kingdom then you're not effected, you only lose 25% of that turn intensive building work. But as the system picks the restore now based on buildings rather than land, if you've a lot of open land on the restore then probably you've worked less hard (turn-wise), just spent a few turns getting it by war or tithe.

Sure the excess land might have been due to lotting, but that's only going to happen when missing a restore window anyway, and a maximum like 20k ought to be more than good enough as a basis to rebuild after a missed window.
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Aeyliea » Fri May 17, 2013 11:42 pm

That would certainly prevent someone on 30K acres from going wild during a war, snagging 100K acres and getting careless. So what you are suggesting is thus:

A 40K acre fully built realm enters a war, attacks and destroys a couple of similarly size realms and gains 50K acres between them. The new total is like 44K built on 90K acres.

This kingdom is PLed, then killed or decides to manually restore their realm. Upon restore, they drop to 31K built with 20K open, reducing them from 90K to 51k?

That reduces the amount of land being pumped into the system and makes taking down large kingdoms a bit more realistic, and features like sorc kill more of an option than they currently are.

It might even be wise to reduce that maximum open acreage to a number like 15K just to prevent too much land inflation. It allows a nice return for a realm taking the risk they do, without making it impossible for everyone else to keep up with land whores :D
Now nimble fingers, that dance on numbers / Will eat your children and steal your thunder;
While heavy torsos that heave and hurl / will crunch like nuts in the mouth of squirrels.

Yeah, its Seska. Start running now, bitch.
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Kaz » Tue May 28, 2013 12:36 pm

I've just restored a kingdom with the hope to get back to the war with a better kingdom. As it currently stands, there is no way that I can inspire for enough gold to refort and train those troops without using up the majority of my turns. I'll be very lucky if I've got 70 turns when RPP ends.

Next age with inspire generating half as much cash and train rate reduced by half, I'd end RPP without about 10 to 15 turns. That means that theoretically you could have too much to do, and actually come out of NPP with no turns at all, and without even fully defending yourself.

The question is... is that 'too much' cost to restore. Next age with the additional reductions, it might be worth passing those turns required to purchase the restore through to the other side. There's not a lot of time to make this call, so what do you lot think?
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Dauthi » Wed May 29, 2013 7:32 pm

Hey Kaz,

With "restore" an option now the need to kill a kingdom is low, you just knock them down to a point they feel the need to restore then you save your turns for the others, this -kinda- gives first strike an additional edge.

I'd like to suggest one of two things.

1. bring back turns bounties. with the idea that you can get some additional turns if you actually kill your enemy instead of just beat him down to a low point and watch him restore. Maybe not 100% of their turns but like 50% or a flat bonus of 50 turns.

or

2. Restore is not an option if you "war" kill someone. And the reason I would limit it to war killing only is because the key to restoring is you get back the land you lost, If your peasant are killed, you never really lost the land so you can RP that new children were born or a neighboring kingdom sent you peasants to help you rebuild. This is for sorc and scum. Were as for war killing its basically your enemy stole all your land.


I think one of these two options would do two things. One make it so people WANT to attack each other, and make it so with first strike you have to consider what you want... do you want to land grab and go, or do you want to kill them off so the chances of them coming back at you later is lower? And it gives incentives to actually go all the way with killing. Last age I had the most kills with what 6? this age with 4? This age there is a total of 9 recorded deaths..... There is no incentive to kill.

Just a random though that came to me, figured I'd share. the first one shouldn't add to much to the coding/changes the 2nd one might require some additional coding changes.
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Re: Restore Discussion

Postby Calen » Wed May 29, 2013 11:04 pm

Restore is an easy escape in some ways so I think we should stop that. It's my opinion that it should only be accessible if you are under 50% (for example) of what you will restore to.
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