Health Care Bill: What Will Happen?

[Grunt]

Nagash as soon as the government is in charge of your health care then they will try to control your actions
NO smoking no drinking
watch your salt intake
no more bacon
as soon as they have to pay for it they have a pretext to control and outlaw behavior

insuring everyone will not make costs go down they will go up
people go to the doctor more often when someone else picks up the tab
My problems with the bill are numerous and most have to do with personal responsibility vs government responsibility and the fact that insurance is actually the problem not the solution

[MoP]

To give you an idea, Belgium has full government health control/insurance, and I pay about €50 a year for my insurance.

How much would you pay now to get insured? 2 regular doctor visits and that €50 already becomes a profit. Just 1 specialist visit and it is a win for me. And honestly, who doesn't see a doctor, eye-specialist, kinesist (sp?), dentist, ... at least once a year? The health insurance just makes sure I go to the doctor sooner (I wouldn't go if it wasn't refunded), so I can get treated earlier if something's wrong.

[Nagash]

It didn't go that way in Europe, and we've been having a collective healthcare system for decades now, Grunt. Of course I am mostly unfamiliar with the way the USA is run in practice, but I can't imagine it's that Big Brotherish.


On another note, I found this rather tasteless: http://www.gop.com
Fire Pelosi? Really? I'm not a fan of the woman at all, she has an annoying air of knowing it all better. But for the opposition party to dedicate its whole site to something like this is ridiculous. No own opinion worth mentioning, so just attacking a figurehead of the other party personally?
I feel sorry for the GOP. If this is how you want to win the battle, you have lost it beforehand.

[Gili]

Nagash as soon as the government is in charge of your health care then they will try to control your actions
NO smoking no drinking
watch your salt intake
no more bacon
as soon as they have to pay for it they have a pretext to control and outlaw behavior

Here in England the doctors always make passing questions about your smoking, drinking habits and such. As you can also expect, anything that can be blamed on smoking/drinking is However they still do whatever it takes to sort you out.

In the past i've just down played my boozing when they make comments. I do remember a few years back the doctor asked if i still did 10 units a week on average...i almost laughed in her face...10 units in my lunch break more like...but managed to keep it cool and carried on with a nod "yup, sounds about right". My boozing is infinitely better now

Only bit i don't like about our health care is why dentistry isn't included in "for free" part.

[Nagash]

We have to pay a wee bit extra for dentistry. For EUR 10 a month extra, I'm covered up to EUR 750 a year.

[Nagash]

Love the sig btw, Giliboo!

[Grunt]

Nagash I am against insurance not collective care
Insurance companies consume between 20 and 30% of every health dollar
I see that as a 20-30% savings just by removing the insurance company from the equation

[Nagash]

I agree. Or a ban on their being profitable.

We have some healthcare insurance companies here in the Netherlands which refund their profits to their customers at the end of the year.

There are plenty of way to reach a proper system. Point is that you need to start somewhere. I think this is all Obama could do, what with the resistance against the bill. Given a decade or two, the system will have been fine tuned and he'll be praised for it.

[Gerien]

I agree. Or a ban on their being profitable.

I've always said make the insurance companies non-profit and you solve MOST of our problems.

FACTBOX-US healthcare bill would provide immediate benefits

[Grunt]

Nagash you must remember alot of resistance came from ignoring the Republicans during the negotiations
It was a completely Democratic bill that did not even get all of the Democratic votes
Listen to most news services or Democrats and it is purely Republicans fault for not wanting the bill
Democrats write a bill with zero Republican imput then are surprised that they do not support it
This was a Democratic wish list just like the stimulus bill was
Do they actually think that by taxing doctors and limiting their pay they will get more doctors
30% of Doctors had said they would retire if this bill passes I will be curious if they really do
My Dads doctor said he would retire and I believe that he will

[Nato]

30% of doctors? That sounds like a poll from Cosmo.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... s-for-you/
Here's a great link for everyone to see how the bill affects your taxes and your coverage and crap.

[Maverick]

Grunt,

Nagash as soon as the government is in charge of your health care then they will try to control your actions
NO smoking no drinking
watch your salt intake
no more bacon
as soon as they have to pay for it they have a pretext to control and outlaw behavior

Now Republicans want to become liberal about drugs?

Who came up with the Dare program?

They already have a pretext to control and outlaw the behavior, its called the govt does what it wants depending on who has the power and money.

As for Dr's quitting, that just sounds like a solution. More Dr's quitting = more free job = less people unemployed.

Sure maybe it wont be like the glory days where Drs and insurance companies collude to rip off patients, but some Dr's will decide that they can live off a low six figure salary instead of a high one.

At least for once Im on the Pro Life side. Pro American Life that is.

USA USA!

[Grunt]

Not sure about the Christian right Republicans but the libertarian wing has always been against prohibition
But then the caricature never fits the person
Mav we already have a shortage of doctors so losing some will create a shortage not a glut but then economics of the bill never mattered to the ideologues anyway
Curious as to what you would think about making all lawyer services free to everyone
there is an actual clause in the constitution that gives everyone the right to an attorney
That should be expanded to all services and a single payer system should be installed to employ all Lawyers and insure everyone gets equal access

[Gerien]

nonpartisan analysis

[Grunt]

My thoughts on Geriens link

1. The plan is not a government takeover of health care like in Canada or Britain.
It is an individual mandate requiring that every citizen buy a service from a for profit company
I think it is unconstitutional and oversteps the mandate given to the Government in the contitution
I guess the courts will decide the issue tho

2. Insurance companies will be regulated more heavily.
regulation is paid for by the consumer
premiums will increase

3. Everyone will have to have health insurance or pay a fine, a requirement known as the individual mandate.
see number 1

4. Employers will not be required to buy insurance for their employees, but large employers may be subject to fines if they don't provide insurance.
adding cost to doing business when the number one concern in the nation is creating jobs

5. The vast majority of people will not see significant declines in premiums.
adding costs to doing business will never get a savings
only an idiot would think heavier regulation would decrease costs

6. The plan might or might not bend the curve on health spending.
only ideologues trying to sell the plan could possibly believe it would save money treating more people and regulating more

7. The government-run Medicare program will keep paying medical bills for seniors, but it will begin implementing cost controls on health care providers, mostly through penalties and incentives.
it will ration care and pay doctors less and I do not see how that could possibly be good for the patients

8. Medicaid, a joint federal-state program for the poor, will cover all of the poor, instead of just a few groups the way it currently does.
I like that provision but it is an unfunded mandate to the states as written.

9. The government won't pay for elective abortions.
I have no problem with this
it allows for insurance companies to offer policies that include abortion

10. No one is proposing new benefits for illegal immigrants.
well it was proposed but rejected
Illegal immigrants should get a trip home after a lengthy jail term and confiscation of all property
I welcome legal immigration but if you can not follow the rules to begin with you never will

[Teanos]

Eh.

Health Care Reform had/has to happen at some point, its just a matter of when and how. The problem with our country is neither side actually votes the way that people want them to vote, and the whole way this bill is written is ass-backwards retarded.

The sad part is since this is being 'forced' on most Americans, and you know damn well the middle-class and the small business owners are going to be taking the brunt of this through tax increases and what not, there is a very strong probability that the Dems are going to loose their seats in November, and Obama will be a one and done president.

Hopefully good will come out of this, but given the way the Government has run Social Security into the ground I highly doubt it.

[Gerien]

1. The plan is not a government takeover of health care like in Canada or Britain.
It is an individual mandate requiring that every citizen buy a service from a for profit company
I think it is unconstitutional and oversteps the mandate given to the Government in the contitution
I guess the courts will decide the issue tho

A caveat insisted upon by the Republican opposition

2. Insurance companies will be regulated more heavily.
regulation is paid for by the consumer
premiums will increase[/quote/
Regulation will help keep costs down by eliminating shady tactics - at worst, offsetting any regulation costs

3. Everyone will have to have health insurance or pay a fine, a requirement known as the individual mandate.
see number 1

Currently we pay more because of people using emergency rooms paid for by higher premiums and taxes) rather than preventive care

4. Employers will not be required to buy insurance for their employees, but large employers may be subject to fines if they don't provide insurance.
adding cost to doing business when the number one concern in the nation is creating jobs

only companies with 50 or more employees, at which point you can plan for such costs in your expansion, and at which point any employee of would normally expect health benefits already

5. The vast majority of people will not see significant declines in premiums.
adding costs to doing business will never get a savings
only an idiot would think heavier regulation would decrease costs

"not see significant declines in premiums" - I don't see how your comment applies

6. The plan might or might not bend the curve on health spending.
only ideologues trying to sell the plan could possibly believe it would save money treating more people and regulating more

see all my answers above to show how this is not idealistic but practical

7. The government-run Medicare program will keep paying medical bills for seniors, but it will begin implementing cost controls on health care providers, mostly through penalties and incentives.
it will ration care and pay doctors less and I do not see how that could possibly be good for the patients

actually doctors will be paid more under new tables n order to convince them to treat low income and Medicare patients

8. Medicaid, a joint federal-state program for the poor, will cover all of the poor, instead of just a few groups the way it currently does.
I like that provision but it is an unfunded mandate to the states as written.

have to check about funding - I can't reply to this one

9. The government won't pay for elective abortions.
I have no problem with this
it allows for insurance companies to offer policies that include abortion

I don't want to start a fight on this one, but here's my attitude - If my taxes have to pay for your war, why can't your taxes pay for my right to an abortion? (And yes, it is, at least for now, a legal right.)

10. No one is proposing new benefits for illegal immigrants.
well it was proposed but rejected
Illegal immigrants should get a trip home after a lengthy jail term and confiscation of all property
I welcome legal immigration but if you can not follow the rules to begin with you never will

your comment really is a completely different topic, so I leave that for another thread

[Gerien]

Health Care Reform had/has to happen at some point, its just a matter of when and how. The problem with our country is neither side actually votes the way that people want them to vote, and the whole way this bill is written is ass-backwards retarded.

Agreed, but it was this reform or nothing for another 20-30 years - and it did have to happen.

The sad part is since this is being 'forced' on most Americans, and you know damn well the middle-class and the small business owners are going to be taking the brunt of this through tax increases and what not, there is a very strong probability that the Dems are going to loose their seats in November, and Obama will be a one and done president.

maybe

Hopefully good will come out of this, but given the way the Government has run Social Security into the ground I highly doubt it.

agreed again, though I would put a lot of the blame for soc sec on both Reagan and Bush Sr.

[tubs]

We will repeal it in a year or so. Don't worry, we won't let you libs take us down a path that will destroy America.

It will be very difficult to repeal one part of this bill - that by 2014 insurance companies can't discriminate based on pre-existing conditions. It would be very amusing seeing the Republicans trying to spin that one out. For this reason alone, I find myself supporting this bill. If the system can't turn people away for being sick then the system has to be supported by the healthy people otherwise it just won't work. I'm sure there will be many more future changes to the laws when the Repubs are in charge and when the Dems are back again, but I can only see future changes to the system being positive in light of this law in place.

[owly]

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