Guild War Limitations (How to make them work)

[Venus]

Kaz i dont have any technical game suggestions per say, but id like to say that NECRO hit it on the head.
that was hands down the best post ive seen in a year

of course we dont -need- a bad guild right now, but in the future i hope we are stable enough to have one

hell for years, they would have said i ran the bad guild
if dysh hadnt been around, i suspect we would have always been the bad guys even though i -always - had a good reason to downhit /winks
for god sakes, i had mav in the guild. that alone was cause for us to be the bad guys:Pppp

what im trying to say is PLEASE dont let the current situation get you down..
let us play for a bit and let it work itself out.
its already changing in the one thread

you see a downhit./or in their opinion a fair hit/ whatever
then he disbands
then people apologize, and try and get them to come back or make faith guilds in leto because we need them

what im trying to say is the good people outweigh the bad
and the only way they will learn is to be bashed now and then

of course i dont want to see every thread like that. but sometimes its just necessary or the newbies wont learn what we all as a community do and do not tolerate.

having "grown up" with Decae (from whom I learned the gems "you are the result of a coathanger abortion gone bad", and a certain rant about not giving a flying fuck about what the "ball-gag wearing internet bitch-slaves" thought), Neurosis, Souldemon, and all of the other "Old timers", I was well prepared for most of the things I ran across. today, Braggarts Hall is STILL the standard by which I judge other forums.

LOL i miss them
the first time i got up the courage to post in BH Mav bashed me so bad i wanted to run away and cry:O
i got over it though lol

has anyone got demmy to play?
i know hes on facebook alot.

i promise to help with the boards and stuff, just please dont make me rp

trust me!!! you dont want me to. i suck at it so bad that i put off posting for days and days.
im terrible
really
no rp for venus /nodsnods

being venus is my rp!!! im always venus:)))
im gonna go hide now before you guys institute rp into game as mandatory!!

[Necro99]

i promise to help with the boards and stuff, just please dont make me rp

trust me!!! you dont want me to. i suck at it so bad that i put off posting for days and days.
im terrible
really
no rp for venus /nodsnods

being venus is my rp!!! im always venus:)))
im gonna go hide now before you guys institute rp into game as mandatory!!

I couldn't possibly agree more. I looked at the wayback machine a while ago and cringed at one of the DIE awards ceremonies. <shudder>

[Pistol]

Kaz on your Chance 3 with enforced RP please, please dont bring that in.

Im rather busy settling into a new country, a new job and preparing for my wedding I dont have the time or the inclination to RP. I want to play the game because I enjoy it not because I like to write stories. The character Pistol would clearly be out of step in an RP environment anyway

[Blacklock]

I am all for the fairness of hits and I understand you don't want this game to go back to where you had to close it(I wasn't here for it but I can imagine).

I do want to echo what others are saying in give us a chance this age and see where it goes. If it continues down a slippery slope then implement changes as you see fit. Its your game to do what you want and I understand if you feel its needed but I think with the people that are here that we can make this a positive environment for all and maybe even convince a new generation to play(we can hope).

The situation that led to this discussion for the most part has worked itself out and I think everyone else is very aware of what we need to do here.

If your set on this I will think a bit on it and contribute something to what you were originally asking for.

[Aeyliea]

I do not like the idea of enforced anything. Forcing people to be 'fair and honorable' will make being fair an honorable meaningless.

Which is not to say that I like douchebag moves, downhits, and gangbangs - but the option needs to be there. There are times when it is warranted and Necro pretty well hit a lot of it on the nail - we don't need a bastard right now, buit every now and again its nice to have someone to hate.

If you want to code that system in, its your ball of wax - shape it how you like. However, give us a chance first. Masta was misguided, and I am - and always have been, a fucking asshole. There are other assholes here, too, but most of the playerbase seems to have the right idea this time. Don't cheapen it by forcing us to play nice, let us sort our own problems out and feel the way forward.

Also, I have a new roleplayer - old roleplayer - in my guild,. how absolutely fantastic!

[Nagash]

I think it might indeed be too quick to discard this guilds experiment as having failed based on Devius’ bad choice of war and he bitchfest he inspired afterwards. We were plotting to join in that war as of the moment it started, even if we were freshly out of war with Empire (to whose aid we were running now!). His was a unilateral act against which even his own members protested. If you have one small piece of rust on your car you fix the rusty part rather than discarding or overhauling the car.

What we really need is a change of mind. People need to realise that we’re all here just to have fun. For some that means trying to win at all cost, others just want to arse about a bit. You can try to be Macchiavelli here, or the village idiot. And whatever you choose, it matters little as long as the other guilds are ready to correct anything we deem wrong. If that means aiding the very guild that we only just got peace with after they attacked us, so be it. Such action needs to be taken, and it has to be taken every time a bad hit is done.

So instead of coded honour and war limitations, I would rather see a code of conduct. A code of laws, if you will. It divides the guilds into two categories: civilised and uncivilised. We could draft and amend the rules of engagement with all the players of that moment, and guilds can choose to either support (sign) or not support/sign it. Those who do support it are to run to the aid of guilds who get attacked in violation of the code of conduct, regardless of the faith. Those who do not support it (Goblins would be a good example, as they just want to kill people off) can be considered unguilded, as they are unchivalrous and uncivilised barbarians.

This would institutionalise self-policing and proper/even wars, while still leaving the possibility to act outside of it and act the renegade.

[Calen]

I would like to throw my .02 cents in here if I may.

Personally I don't believe that it should be hard-coded in that you can't do a down-hit, just increase the amount of turns that it costs to do those attacks. I believe the system already does this if I'm not misled. There are enough guilds out there at the moment that if a ridiculous down-hit does occur, the defending guild can call upon the aid of a larger one. Let the community police itself on what can be accepted for a down-hit and what can't be.

Returning to the topic at hand, I agree with Nagash's suggestion of having the guilds be noted in the list as 'civilized' or 'uncivilized', using different terms of course.

[Vilena]

Nagash, would a code of conduct like that come from one "sect" in RP though? .... I mean, I doubt Leto or his followers would sign or follow any code of conduct, unless they were lying about it, for example.

I liked better when RP affected the game, not vice-versa. There's still a story guys...and it's a story of faith & war & vengence and all that good stuff.

[Igneous]

Well said V, die heathen scum! Chaos surrounds you! Muahahahahahahaha!

[Kaz]

Well said V, die heathen scum! Chaos surrounds you! Muahahahahahahaha!

Just wanted to double check something. Recently since Vilena started posting again, there have been a few posts recently that 'seem' to be referring to her as V. While I appreciate that I might be wrong, and that it wasn't actually Vilena being addressed, it is confusing. Yes Vilena starts with the letter V, but 'V' has traditionally been used to refer to Venus. I appreciated that Venus doesn't have a monopoly on the letter, but I'm getting slightly confused with the same thing being seemingly used to refer to two different people who've posted in the same thread.

[Vilena]

Oh my gosh that is SO funny, Kaz! ... Because I thought about that when making a test kingdom for Domination - my leader name: "The Other V" ... Hehheheheh

You all may heretofore-and-hence-onward-and-upward-back-and-forth-and-et-cetera-refer to ME as, Vilena, or Vil.
I may still answer to other names but those who know them know that I do answer to said names and that is why they refer to me as them and all that good stuff. Still reading people? Gosh, you were in that for the long-haul! ;>

Then you folks have exactly that much time to post-a-post in-character about why your kingdom is killin-some-heathen scum!
Now all of you! Go play & kill & maim & die heathen die and get back here to RP about it. ("RP" remember, as in having FUN)


/Shameless RP advertising, until later.

[Igneous]

Er, rather.... Vil then, in that case. My bad. No disrespect V. I like you too.

[Vilena]

Ok - and then -

I'd also like to see, perhaps first, that any action done from Guilded kingdom to another Guilded kingdom should take more turns unless Guild War has been activated. That would encourage the declaration of war (perhaps even with a topic being made) being done first of all, given the opposition a chance to defend themselves.

I like that idea. That would also help curb some of the "scumming" of kingdoms not engaged in guild-war. Make us looters & burners think twice! And by "us," I do not mean "me"

Chance 3 is complete closure of the Guilds OOC forums and a reinstatement of enforced Roleplay.

Call it "posting in-character" -- some people become shy or "blah!" about roleplay, but posting in-character..heck everyone can do that without even thinking about it. In-character, to me, means keeping within the realm of the GAME, and not bringing outside (or RL) things into your posts - don't make it personal, or take things personally.

You're right in that adding a forum of enforced honour takes away a players ability to create a Bad guild. But the simple fact is that nobody NEEDS or WANTS a bad guild.

I agree with what Cruella had to say,

Too much regulation stifles the game play and contrary to what you say, a "bad guild" is not a bad thing. Every game, every story needs a villain or two and without them, the story or game will fall flat."

I was reading some old guild charters earlier, and TRC comes to mind on this one: Khal & Verena (that-even-other-V) straight up told people their's was a scummers guild; actually now that I think about it, not too far off from what Dauthi is trying to do here. And that was in their charter.

You realise that a side effect of the bounty screen and kill count score is that ninja scum kills are actually impossible. Unseen scum burns, loots, sabs etc are still totally unseen, kills are also unseen (from a news point of view), but if the kill is actually completed, even unseen, it'll show on the bounty screen. (emphasis my own)

Oh! That is not even right & (shock & awe heheh)

...maybe this was just an aberration.

(Mav was talking about that first nasty war-thread) Well, people get emotional about the game (I still think that is a good thing) - but when it started going personal and involving real-life references and the like, that crossed the line. Parties involved realize that I think. In-character, remember that people! ;>

Therefore our community needs to be the driving force of recruitment. Our main attracting factor at present appeals to returning vets and we are working activley on appealing to new roleplayers.

Couldn't agree more!

[Gili]

Couldn't agree more!

You mean....Couldn't agreen more?

[Vilena]

har-har Gili - I do like greeeeen tho - Oleana was cool ;>

[Venus]

yeah the V thing totally confused me too.

[Nagash]

Nagash, would a code of conduct like that come from one "sect" in RP though? .... I mean, I doubt Leto or his followers would sign or follow any code of conduct, unless they were lying about it, for example.

I liked better when RP affected the game, not vice-versa. There's still a story guys...and it's a story of faith & war & vengence and all that good stuff.

The values of Leto don't necessarily mean that one has to act like a backstabbing bastard. One can be chaotically and artistically decadent while keeping a proper standard. Though I agree to some extent. I've always looked at Leto as being Roman in a post-Octavianus style. Those dudes were quite genocidal without second thoughts or conscience speaking up.

But even if a number of guilds or even a whole faith would be lying about it, the other guilds would intervene when someone (or even some faith) acts out of line. It could all work out well RP-technically, but add the dimension of decency/civilisation versus anarchy/barbarism. That means willingly step away from the bipolar religious model to a model with two axes.