Health Care Bill: What Will Happen?

[Nagash]

Good article. I found myself agreeing with this:

Despite its flaws this historic piece of healthcare legislation is the first step in reforming a broken system that has failed to cover over 30 million Americans.

The bill is too much of a compromise to be a good bill. But it does mean a shift in the way peolpe think of healthcare. I am sure that given time, no one in America will want to go back to the way it was, except maybe the most rabid of Republicans.

Every decision which is made in this way supports my call for a complete overhaul of the whole American political system, but I'll refrain from emphasising that too much lest we deviate from the topic at hand.

Grunt (and other opponents of the bill), as the decision is made now, just wait and see what happens. I think a lot of amendments and revamps are required to make this system work, but then again, isn't that always the case with new systems?

The system you had was one of the worst in all (semi-)civilised countries. If anything, this is better. And doctors threatening to quit don't know what they're saying. What would they do for a living then? Sure, they can't rip off their patients anymore like they used to, but it's not like they're going to be poor from now on.

Over here, people become doctors because they see it as a calling. Most people who study to become a doctor, know that they want to do so as of a very early age (I know some who said they wanted to be a doctor at age 4 (!) and are now wrapping up their last years at the uni). It seems that in the private clinics in the USA it's nothing more than a quick way to get ridiculously rich.

[Grunt]

Nagash as you said it is not a good bill as it stands
they could have created a good bill but it was all back room deals and payoffs
it was crafted by the left wing of the Democrats and 1 in 8 Democrats voted against it
It is the first piece of major legislation that passed against the will of the people
I hear MOP talking about his low premiums but not the high taxes that subsidize it
this is a step towards removing personal responsibility from the American psyche
You claim it is the worst because socialist organizations rate according to universal coverage not quality of care
American system has the highest rate of survival for all cancers and brings the highest concentration of modern medical equipment
Survival statistics highly favor the American system
If you only count everyone getting the same free sup par care then America does not rate good

[MoP]

I hear MOP talking about his low premiums but not the high taxes that subsidize it

Tbh, my employer pays for it. I don't really feel the high taxes they demand for social security. Agreed, it's not a very good thing either as Belgium is one of the most expensive countries to have an employee in.

[Gerien]

It is the first piece of major legislation that passed against the will of the people

Every time you use that catchphrase you deligitimize my opinions of this bill. The last time I checked I was "of the people" in this country, and I, and millions more like me, did want this to pass.

Are we disappointed in the final result? Damn right. Are we glad we're making progress toward eventually getting this health care system we all want? Damn right.

If you only count everyone getting the same free sup par care then America does not rate good

France, which has fully subsidized "socialist" medicine, is consistently ranked as the best or near the best in the world. Oh, and doctors there get paid an average of $80,000/year. That doesn't sound sub par to me. (And yes, I know it is expensive, but it's certainly not sub par.)

[Nato]

My boyfriend said the same thing, "omg! where are the people who actually wanted this!" And he feels like he wasn't represented and all that. But the truth is, he was represented. Our representatives, that he helped elect, voted against the plan. And the reason he doesn't know more people in support of the bill is because we live on the edge of civilization in Georgia.

Welcome to how the other half lived for 8 years. ;p

[Sturm-II]

because we live on the edge of civilization in Georgia.

Why am I getting the impression of Nato sitting on the porch with a banjo in her hand?
;p

[owly]

Paddle faster i hear a Bango

[Nato]

I am in an acceptable part of surburbia... but it's close, man. Real close.

[tubs]

The opposition is backed by the Republicans, Glenn Beck and the Tea Party people all who have a very organized media/protesting operation. No wonder you get the impression that the people don't support this health care reform because the supporters aren't as loud. Though when you look at the polls it's pretty evenly split.

It's not the bill I wanted either Grunt, but since the Republicans sit on their thumbs for years with regard to serious health care reform whenever they are in charge, I'm going along with the Dem's plan. At the very least it'll mean health will be an agenda in future Repub administrations and I'm sure your ideas will get represented down the road.

[Sturm-II]

I am in an acceptable part of surburbia... but it's close, man. Real close.

..So your saying it's Moonshine sleepy hollowville and not "Bubba get the gimpville"? lol


Btw, I loved the debate on Larry King over this health reform, reminds me of the old war threads we've had in the past.

[Nagash]

The opposition is backed by the Republicans, Glenn Beck and the Tea Party people all who have a very organized media/protesting operation. No wonder you get the impression that the people don't support this health care reform because the supporters aren't as loud. Though when you look at the polls it's pretty evenly split.

It's not the bill I wanted either Grunt, but since the Republicans sit on their thumbs for years with regard to serious health care reform whenever they are in charge, I'm going along with the Dem's plan. At the very least it'll mean health will be an agenda in future Repub administrations and I'm sure your ideas will get represented down the road.

I think that's the best thing to do, master tubs.

And those who yell the loudest often have the least convincing arguments.

Gruntman, I'm not going to try and convince you.... time will either prove me right or wrong. I'm convinced you will see that it's actually a good thing and not at all as bad as the GOP want to frame it.

[Grunt]

No I do not think the Government is there to take care of me
They have 2 purposes as far as I am concerned
Protect the nation from outside threats and insure that personal liberty is not trampled on
MOP answer that his employer pays so it does not matter is a perfect example of sheeple paying but neither knowing nor caring
You say yourself it is one of the most expensive places to have an employee
that means fewer employees and less pay for the employees
but you brag about a cheap premium whereas the majority is payed by you via your employer
Gerien I do not diminish your opinion by stating that the majority of Americans by almost 2 to 1 oppose this legislation
Congress diminishes the majority by not listening to them tho

I view this bill as the government running a privately owned business in the extreme controls they wish to put on the industry
Can anyone out there tell me the system of government that espouses government control over privately owned businesses

[MoP]

You say yourself it is one of the most expensive places to have an employee

True.

that means fewer employees and less pay for the employees

Not true at all. Well, fewer employees perhaps, cause companies tend to move to other countries. But I don't think I earn less than someone abroad doing the same thing I do.

but you brag about a cheap premium whereas the majority is payed by you via your employer

Of course it is paid by me. And all the other employees, consumers and tax payers. And what is wrong with that? I don't feel it on my paycheck and I get cheap healthcare. I'm fairly sure that if they stop providing national healthcare (hence, less taxes), my wage won't rise significantly, if it rises at all. Bruto wages are calculated on how much they yield netto.

[Nagash]

By bruto the man means 'gross'. Netto = net (after taxes).


Grunt, you have a very liberal view on the government and its functions. The government just as a sentinel against outside threats and minimal rules, maximum liberty.
I think nowadays precious few people will share that view though.


I doubt whether the majority of Americans opposes the bill by two to one. I think the opposition might say so, or refer to rigged polls. Lack of non-partisanship makes it very difficult to assess, espeially as there are vast differences from state to state (and often also within the states urban/rural).

[Grunt]

Nagash if you represent the right in Europe then the continent is truly lost

[MoP]

Nagash if you represent the right in Europe then the continent is truly lost

Nagash represents everything that's wrong.

[Nagash]

Nagash if you represent the right in Europe then the continent is truly lost

According to many, I am.

[Gerien]

Just saw an ABC report polling 49% say passing this was good, 40% bad, 11% no opnion. That isn't 2 to 1, an ABC isn't liberal. Heck it's Disney.

[Grunt]

Bloomberg had one at 53 36
not 2 to 1 but definitely not for support
yea bloomberg is right but ABC is left

[Grunt]

Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the main congressional panels that wrote the bill Obama signed into law Tuesday.

Such a well thought out bill passed after much deliberation and forethought
lol
I just wonder how many other gaps were ignored in the rush to pass anything