Health Care Bill: What Will Happen?

[Sturm-II]

Such a well thought out bill passed after much deliberation and forethought
I just wonder how many other gaps were ignored in the rush to pass anything

I agree with Grunt here in that the speculation brought up by the Republicans about "closed door dealings = lack of transparency" is a bullet in the foot.[/imho]
Approving a fine system for those w/o HC is another.*edit: retracted
(I understand after it was explained as to the reasoning.)

[Gerien]

Stop complaining and suggest something better then! that's what I hate most about the GOP's response. They have not ONCE made suggestions on how to improve healthcare, just insisted that this bill is bad and we should "start over".

They had their chance to start over after Eisenhower but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Kennedy but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Johnson but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Nixon but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Carter but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Clinton but never did.

Why should I believe they would have done anything after Obama if this hadn't passed?
(Answer: the status quo is in their financial interest.)

Oh, and the amendments they've suggested to the bill so far?
-Stopping gay marriage in D.C.
-No erectile dysfunction drugs to sex offenders
-Points of order under rules requiring that provisions of the fix-it bill must have a budgetary impact
-A bureaucratic cap and trade amendment for each person a government agency hires as a result of this bill, another in the same agency must be fired
-Motion to Commit Bill to Committee and Return In Compliance with President Obama's Promises (which would never happen)

That's just some that do nothing but hold the bill up. Others strip the bill of any impact it might have, like limiting Kathryn Sibelius' powers to regulate the law's requirements.

Teacher: Jimmy, your spelling bee word is obstructionism.
Jimmy: Obstructionism. G O P. Obstructionism.
Teacher: Very good.

[Sturm-II]

Stop complaining and suggest something better then! that's what I hate most about the GOP's response. They have not ONCE made suggestions on how to improve healthcare, just insisted that this bill is bad and we should "start over".

They had their chance to start over after Eisenhower but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Kennedy but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Johnson but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Nixon but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Carter but never did.
They had their chance to start over after Clinton but never did.

Why should I believe they would have done anything after Obama if this hadn't passed?
(Answer: the status quo is in their financial interest.)

Oh, and the amendments they've suggested to the bill so far?
-Stopping gay marriage in D.C.
-No erectile dysfunction drugs to sex offenders
-Points of order under rules requiring that provisions of the fix-it bill must have a budgetary impact
-A bureaucratic cap and trade amendment for each person a government agency hires as a result of this bill, another in the same agency must be fired
-Motion to Commit Bill to Committee and Return In Compliance with President Obama's Promises (which would never happen)

That's just some that do nothing but hold the bill up. Others strip the bill of any impact it might have, like limiting Kathryn Sibelius' powers to regulate the law's requirements.

Teacher: Jimmy, your spelling bee word is obstructionism.
Jimmy: Obstructionism. G O P. Obstructionism.
Teacher: Very good.

-Umm..curious what does sexual orientation & marriage have to do with health coverage?...Std's don't care if your married gay or straight.
-Why would you supply sex offenders with ed drugs?, one would think if said offender can't get a woody that would be a good thing.
-How much this or that amendment would change the overall cost, is not an unreasonalble request.
-So if you hire one person another must be fired??...*rolls eyes,shakes head...Job share.

That last point is a bit confusing to me, could you elaborate Gerien?

[Gerien]

-Umm..curious what does sexual orientation & marriage have to do with health coverage?...Std's don't care if your married gay or straight.
-Why would you supply sex offenders with ed drugs?, one would think if said offender can't get a woody that would be a good thing.
-How much this or that amendment would change the overall cost, is not an unreasonalble request.
-So if you hire one person another must be fired??...*rolls eyes,shakes head...Job share.

1. It doesn't. someone threw that in as a rider.
2. Grandstanding.
3. Not the overall cost, but EVERY part of the bill must have a demonstrable financial impact. Inappropriate for some measures, time consuming to calculate for most others. (Another delaying tactic.)
4. Which would make Obama look like he's keeping people out of work. "Look! Obama wants to cut yoru jobs with his health care bill! He's evil, I tell ya, EEEEVIL! Pay no attention to the fact that we introduced the idea."

[Sturm-II]

Thanks for the clarification.

1. It doesn't. someone threw that in as a rider.

Fair enough, substaniates the obstructionism.

2. Grandstanding.

Agreed, it's a non starter.

3. Not the overall cost, but EVERY part of the bill must have a demonstrable financial impact. Inappropriate for some measures, time consuming to calculate for most others. (Another delaying tactic.)

So those opposing the bill are not satisfied with their speculative macro figure of US $1T in cost, now they expect micro cost on a per measure basis, all the while trumpetting the speculative macro cost.
Sounds like petty *PL syndrome imho.
*= Poor loser

4. Which would make Obama look like he's keeping people out of work. "Look! Obama wants to cut yoru jobs with his health care bill! He's evil, I tell ya, EEEEVIL! Pay no attention to the fact that we introduced the idea."

So it's fear mongering and blatant manipulation.
With the promotion of Green tech and it's fledgling burgeoning job creation, that appears to be another non-starter.

*edit Update:
Good god now people are threatening Lawmakers with death threats.
Put a sock in it and grow up, ya damn extremists...*shakes head

[Grunt]

There were over a dozen GOP bills proposed Gerien but they were ALL ignored by the majority
You honestly expect to lock people out of all negotiation and Ignore ALL of their ideas and have them support the outcome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4qy3bGYii8

[Gerien]

Again, if the GOP was so gung ho to reform health care, what stopped them from trying to even once in the past 40 years? I can give you 16 rotten cherries when you ask for fruit and still tell you, "Well I offered something." Sorry, but they have done nothing historically save fight tooth and nail against every single effort at reforming our health care system, so to come out now and say "Oh noes! You ignored our plans!" is simply disingenuous.

[Grunt]

The lefts goal has been government control of health care for generations
The right does not want government control of any part of our lives
Every entitlement program ever designed by the left is bankrupt yet you are anxious to enact another one
The left has had almost exclusive control over California and look where they are
So yes the right was not going to enact an entitlement program

Republicans work so you dont have to

Look at your sigline the Franklin quote could apply here

[Gerien]

Think we're at an "agree to disagree" point here.

[Sturm-II]

Now that you've both come to an impasse, switch shoes and come to a compromise.

[Nato]

omfg Grunt. Here is the part you missed from the article you quoted:

"Full protection for children would not come until 2014, said Kate Cyrul, a spokeswoman for the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, another panel that authored the legislation. That's the same year when insurance companies could no longer deny coverage to any person on account of health problems."

[Teanos]

Eh. (think I said that already)

I'll be honest with you I think alot of the opposition to this comes from the fact that it happened under a Democrat majority, and you won't find many people who will publically admit it - but the fact that a black president got this bill signed is driving people crazy.

I'm not a fan of 94% of this Bill, but what choice do I have? I can write my congressman - oh wait, he's a Demacrat. Damn.
I can post a bunch of crap on CNN.com and Foxnews.com and incite all sort sof hatred. All that does is get me banned from those places and wastes my time. Or, I can agree with tubs and just see what happens.

I have a good job, I have decent insurance, and I have marginal medical bills. To be honest Health Care to me was never a problem in the past, but then I had a kid, started having health issues of my own and now it really is a big deal. I just kind of fall in that majority who already has coverage, doesn't pay a ton of money out of my pocket, and have deductibles and payments that are reasonable. Thats not the say thats going to be the case in a year or 3 1/2.

The general public voted in "Change". So change we have - a historic bill that was passed and could either reform our country, or bankrupt our country. Either way, its change people wanted so we - as americans - have to embrace it and go with it. My hope is that in 3 1/2 years, if a Republican gets voted in, Health Care will be a primary focus for that President. I hope that rather then repeal the bill, it can be adjusted, fixed, changed in some manner that really does benefit people.

Probably a pipe dream but hey, its better then sitting here tossing angry thoughts at random internet people.

I plan on seeing what happens, worst case, costs me more money and I'll be pissed.

[Teanos]

Oh - and I forgot to mention I already have a fall back plan.

I practice my british accent on a nightly basis and will migrate overseas if America dies because of this.

Pip Pip, CHERIO!

[Grunt]

yep Gerien pretty much
I can accept that and still think you are a good man without evil intentions
I hate the Glenn Beck crowd that insist on evil intentions just as much as I hated the left that insisted Bush had evil intentions
I accept that each side wants to help just has different ways of doing it
as I said at the beginning
elections have consequences

[bigSparky]

Here's what I think is going to happen. Unless I missed something and it has already gone back to the senate and passed unchanged. When it goes to the senate, my understanding is that they must send it back to the house unchanged. I don't think that will happen. If it doesn't then the house has to vote again. The senate will send it back with one or maybe two major changes that really don't mean anything but it will be enough to keep it from re-passing in the house. This way they will all keep their jobs come the next elections. Before the house passed this, the large majority of Americans supported health care reform, but not what they knew of THIS bill, and the way in which it was crafted. The GOP DID offer substantial input but it was summarily rejected. Tort reform, portability, and availability of insurance carriers across state lines, to name a few. These things would have contributed to significant cost lowering. Unfortunately the voters won't remember exactly why it didn't actually become law, only that it didn't, and they will feel that they were actually listened to.

[Nagash]

Bloomberg had one at 53 36
not 2 to 1 but definitely not for support
yea bloomberg is right but ABC is left

That's exactly what I meant when I said that statistics only have value when they're impartial and from a non-partisan source. If Bloomberg and ABC are so far removed from one another, they need to sort their methods out. Not that they will, they both are just out to manipulate the public.

Oh, and the amendments they've suggested to the bill so far?
-Stopping gay marriage in D.C.
-No erectile dysfunction drugs to sex offenders
-Points of order under rules requiring that provisions of the fix-it bill must have a budgetary impact
-A bureaucratic cap and trade amendment for each person a government agency hires as a result of this bill, another in the same agency must be fired
-Motion to Commit Bill to Committee and Return In Compliance with President Obama's Promises (which would never happen)

Please tell me you're kidding. That would be in the same pathetic league as the "Fire Pelosi" thing. If they dislike the bill, they should stop throwing mud and start suggesting viable alternatives. Seems to me that the GOP is prematurely campaigning, unless there are elections soon. And using policy proposals as campaign ammunition is sending your country down the highway to hell just to obtain some votes. Bad form, and looking out for themselves rather than those they represent.

Eh. (think I said that already)

I'll be honest with you I think alot of the opposition to this comes from the fact that it happened under a Democrat majority, and you won't find many people who will publically admit it - but the fact that a black president got this bill signed is driving people crazy.

I'm not a fan of 94% of this Bill, but what choice do I have? I can write my congressman - oh wait, he's a Demacrat. Damn.
I can post a bunch of crap on CNN.com and Foxnews.com and incite all sort sof hatred. All that does is get me banned from those places and wastes my time. Or, I can agree with tubs and just see what happens.

[...]

The general public voted in "Change". So change we have - a historic bill that was passed and could either reform our country, or bankrupt our country. Either way, its change people wanted so we - as americans - have to embrace it and go with it. My hope is that in 3 1/2 years, if a Republican gets voted in, Health Care will be a primary focus for that President. I hope that rather then repeal the bill, it can be adjusted, fixed, changed in some manner that really does benefit people.

Probably a pipe dream but hey, its better then sitting here tossing angry thoughts at random internet people.

I plan on seeing what happens, worst case, costs me more money and I'll be pissed.

I think I agree with pretty much that entire post (except for the having health problems part, as I am healthy ). Bush was the perfect enabler for Obama and his change. You wanted change, you got change. Across the 1900s various presidents have tried to achieve something like this and now it has happened. Scary that it took a black dude? Perhaps, perhaps not. Probably just that change itself that scares the more conservative Americans.

Repealing this bill after Obama's term(s) would be counterproductive, arguably even destructive. Adjust it, fine tune it, make it work as you want it to. Make it the good bill it might have been were it not opposed so heavily. Work on it on a constructive basis and battle your opponents on what they suggest and what they want. Show them where you disagree, why and what you would do differently. Crap like "fire Pelosi" and "we don't want your bill, so let's start a riot and attack you personally" will indeed cause your side to be ignored if you're taking on a majority. And rightfully so.

That was the case when all the Democrats could say "Bush is an evil warmonger" and it is the case now all the Republicans can say "Obama is an evil leftie". Both arguments are pathetic and unbecoming of a politician. The sad truth is that American politics have degraded to this point because of its highly personalised nature. It no longer counts what you think, it counts who you are and who you know.

[Gerien]

Please tell me you're kidding. That would be in the same pathetic league as the "Fire Pelosi" thing. If they dislike the bill, they should stop throwing mud and start suggesting viable alternatives. Seems to me that the GOP is prematurely campaigning, unless there are elections soon. And using policy proposals as campaign ammunition is sending your country down the highway to hell just to obtain some votes. Bad form, and looking out for themselves rather than those they represent.

Nope, not kidding.

GOP Forces Health Amendments Bill Back To House
by NPR staff and wires

Senate Republicans forced late-night changes to a bill amending President Obama's landmark health care legislation early Thursday, a move that bounces the package of "fixes" back to the House for another vote.

A spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Republicans consulting with the Senate parliamentarian identified problems with "two minor provisions" relating to Pell grants for low-income students. Democrats were using a procedure called budget reconciliation to speed the bill's passage and block a filibuster, but the Pell grant sections were found to violate reconciliation rules that all provisions must directly impact the budget.

Democrats called the development a minor glitch and said they believe they have a comfortable margin of passage in the House.

"I expect to get this bill back from the Senate sometime later this afternoon, and I would expect a couple of hours thereafter we will have the bill on the floor for final passage and it will pass the House and be sent to the president," House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told CBS' The Early Show.

The two provisions are expected to be formally removed from the bill Thursday, and the Senate is expected to take a final vote in the afternoon. A final vote in the House could come as soon as Thursday night.

The Senate announcement followed a nine-hour marathon session stretching past 2 a.m. in which Democrats defeated 29 Republican amendments — any one of which would have sent the legislation back to the House. (emphasis added)

continued here

[Grunt]

senate passed the reconciliation bill
back to the house

[Sturm-II]

Is glad to see democracy wining and not incivility.

[Gerien]

Is glad to see democracy wining and not incivility.

Riiiiight.


After Health Vote, Threats on Democrats
The New York Times
By CARL HULSE
Published: March 24, 2010
WASHINGTON — Democratic lawmakers have received death threats and been the victims of vandalism because of their votes in favor of the health care bill, lawmakers and law enforcement officials said Wednesday, as the Congressional debate over the issue headed toward a bitter and divisive conclusion.

Representative Steny H. Hoyer, Democrat of Maryland and the majority leader, said at least 10 House members had raised concerns about their personal security since Sunday’s climactic vote, and Mr. Hoyer characterized the cases as serious.

At least two Congressional district offices were vandalized and Representative Louise M. Slaughter, a senior Democrat from New York, received a phone message threatening sniper attacks against lawmakers and their families.

Ms. Slaughter also reported that a brick was thrown through a window of her office in Niagara Falls, and Representative Gabrielle Giffords, Democrat of Arizona, said Monday that her Tucson office was vandalized after the vote.

continued